FULLERTON (CBS) — The Fullerton police officer accused of beating a 37-year-old homeless man to death has been released from jail.

Manuel Ramos, 37, who is facing a charge of second-degree murder in the death of Kelly Thomas, was released on bail early Thursday morning.

Ramos, a 10-year-veteran with the department, pleaded not guilty Monday before a judge rejected a request to lower his $1 million bail.

Thomas, a schizophrenic homeless man, died after a confrontation with six police officers who were responding to reports of car burglaries.

Officer Jay Cicinelli, 39, was also charged with involuntary manslaughter and use of excessive force.

Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas says video of the incident shows Ramos initiating the deadly beating.

CBS2 spoke with Ramos’ attorney John Barnett, who confirmed that his bail money was raised by family and friends.

“Being a police officer does not strip you of your constitutional rights,” Barnett said. “He made bail… I’m glad that he’s out. It will be much easier to mount our defense with him out of custody.”

Thomas’ father spoke exclusively with CBS2 Thursday morning about Ramos’ release.

“Well, I’m dissatisfied, but it is out process that we have to life with. Ramos, and even Cicinelli, belong behind bars,” Ron Thomas said. “That’s really where I want them to be.”

He also says his son was the victim of a hate crime.

“I think it was definitely, and I’ve said this from the beginning, a hate crime towards the homeless and the mentally ill. Ramos knew my son very well and he should have handled it much differently, but he didn’t. So I think he was specifically targeted in that very, very aggressive manner because he was homeless and schizophrenic.”

Thomas says he will attend Ramos’ preliminary hearing, which is scheduled for Nov. 4.

“I absolutely will attend. I need to stay aware of what’s going on. I need to be there for my son.”

Comments (105)
  1. John Holmes says:

    “I absolutely will attend. I need to stay aware of what’s going on. I need to be there for my son.” Now he is there for his son a little too late. All he is looking for is a big payday and he will surely get it even though he does not deserve a penny of it. The dad is a martyr and did not care enough to take his son in his house and get him the professional mental help that he needed, but now all he sees in dollar signs once lawyers started calling him saying that he won the “lottery”.

    1. citizen says:

      you are so wrong. Just let the cops get away with it. Real good.

    2. T Fillmore says:

      Sir –

      I believe the father has noted he does not intend to keep any monies received – instead he intends to create a charity foundation.

      Also, please be sure to read the comments from parents/friends of mentally ill persons, you may be enlightened.

      T Fillmore

      1. John says:

        The father filed restraining orders against his son, and kicked him out of the house. Don’t believe the lies you hear, this man WILL profit from this.

      2. T Fillmore says:

        I’m replying to John, not my own comment.

        Do you know why a restraining order was in place? Most people assume it is for violence but it can also be for trespassing or even repetitive, distressing behavior such as continual phone calls. It can also be through third parties as well.

        A parent always holds out hope that their child will see why it is in place and stop the behavior. Is this not, then, a parent looking out for the well being of their child? If the alternative is to report a criminal action they are likely to go to jail, perhaps prison. The jails and prisons are full of violent persons, so wouldn’t you take every precaution to try to keep your child out of jail?

        I would caution you not to jump to conclusions on this issue, it’s not as clear cut as it may seem.

    3. wgaf says:

      You must be using that name to let everyone know you’re a big d!ck. Your comments have succeeded in doing so.

  2. Gabriela says:

    My Sister and I were discussing the same this past weekend. As mothers, we just don’t understand why his son was sleeping in the streets. I told her that perhaps he was severely violent to his family, uncontrollable and probably escaping from home or institutions… we were trying to come up with reasons as to why he was living on the streets. He’s father claims that his son was not violent and that the officers knew that he was mentally ill and targeted him for it. I just don’t get. Why was he homeless? I can’t imagine allowing my child to be homeless, unless I was homeless myself and incapable of seeking help for her.

    1. T Fillmore says:

      Hi –

      Please refer to my comment below, it may help you understand why things unfolded the way they did.


      T Fillmore

    2. NumbrOne Male says:

      @willy and gabriela why are you focusing on why this man was living on the streets and not the evil act of his murder? when i read your comments i truly understand the phrase <"the more you talk,the more stupid you sound" smh

  3. Zimmer says:

    Sadly, I tend to agree with Willy.

  4. Rick says:

    Ramos is just an ignorant thug who thinks that a badge and a gun legitimize his real nature as a crim and a bully. Hope he goes to jail with the rest of the thugs.

  5. citizen says:

    I don’t believe you would be following or sleeoing on a bench. What are you so mad about? The mans son was beat to death by the brutal cops. I want to see the cops go to jail for life. You have no compasion. THE KILLED HIS SON PLAIN PERIOD SIMPLE.

    1. willy says:

      i have 4 kids 12,16,18,22 recently my 18 year old wanted to attend a concert with friends and they planed to camp out to get tickets i reluctantly agreed cuz i dont think its the safest idea but she wanted the tickets so i let her do it. un-known to her and her friends i was parked half a block down the street watching them ALL NIGHT so trust me if one of my kids was like kelly and insisted on being on the streets I WOULD BE RIGHT THERE WITH THEM NO QUESTION IN MY MIND its what a parent does

    2. Roger Wallace says:

      @willy: I’d say anyone who is stalking their 18 year old adult daughter has some serious issues. I’m so glad you are not my father — I would have fast and far away.

    3. wgaf says:

      Check that a 22 y.o. too, jeezus looks like real trailer park trash.

  6. Suzy Castles says:

    Regardless of what Ron Thomas did or didn’t do, that in no way excuses the criminal behavior of Ramos. He should be locked away for life so that his aggressive violent nature isn’t applied to the public again.

  7. lbcman says:

    My brother-in-law was schizophrenic and would always run away from home even though he was welcome at his mothers or our home because of his condition he felt he was being held captive. He was on medication but at times refused to take it and did things like run from the police, who would harass him all the time. After battling the state for years he was finally admitted to a state hospital where he died of cancer (probably from the drugs he took for years for his schizophrenia). With people like this you try and try to help but most of the time they just won’t accept it.

    1. Gabriela says:

      It sounds like it took an incredibly lengthy battle to get him admitted into a State institution, but not impossible. Most of the people that have posted, claiming knowing “The Law”; state that it’s impossible, that anyone over the age of 18 if mentally ill, a danger to himself or others can’t be helped if they don’t want to be helped!! Your statement above; despite it taking years and a lot of heart-ache, time, money, etc proves that’s not the case.

      I absolutely believe that the actions of the police officers needs to be fully investigated. In my opinion, the pictures taken definitely show that he suffered a terrible beating. I haven’t seen any videos. Like I said in my previous comment, it simply doesn’t make sense that he would be homeless if he had a father that was so devoted to him as his father appears to be now, after his death. If in effect, the people that posted about knowing Healthcare law, are correct that it would be unlawful to do everything in your power to help your child when they can care for themselves, but are considered adults in our system, I can sort-of understand… not everyone is strong enough to hold up against incredible adversity and the challenges that life presents. However you can bet that I would rather be placed in jail if I had to choose between protecting my child from harming herself or others…

      In summary, my statements/comments don’t indicate that I’m in favor of the Police Officer actions, Justice must be done! They’re simply an observation as a parent….

  8. T Fillmore says:

    Sir –

    Mentally ill people have the same rights to their independence as does everyone else under California law – once a person becomes an adult, mentally ill or not, they cannot be forced to do anything, including take medication, and a parent cannot interfere in their life. Also, mentally ill children cannot, under law, be forced to take their medication or get treatment either, and a parent has no rights to ask their doctor anything about their treatment. Did you know that?

    Please sir, I would ask you to research the rules I reference – I suspect you may change your opinion and will be as angry about the rules as your words suggest you are towards this man’s father.

    In closing, I would ask you – what would be your feelings if you knew that the person(s) who killed your child knew him and his history, had training in how to deal with the mentally ill and homeless, and that your child had called out for you as he died?

    I grieve for this man, his son and his family.

    1. Justice for Kelly Thomas says:

      Well said T. Fillmore…. My reply posting above to Willy’s almost mirrors yours…. You must work in healthcare or are a healthcare worker or caretaker.

    2. sad dad says:

      T-filmore your not totally right YES its harder with an adult child but my wife and i have an order from the courts that allows us to monitor our son who is 24 and just like kelly. my son beat me bad once when off his meds prompting this order. we now over see him taking his meds DAILY by cort order. he holds down a job has a girl friend and is doing well you might ask what keeps my son in line with this order HE FELT HORID about kickin my butt for one as we are very close and 2. he knows if he goes off meds again and does something like that again the court can nail him harder since it would not be his first time. point is IT CAN BE DONE. does it work with all NO but it does not seem THIS father ever tried. so in parting PARENTS CAN GET PROTECTION AND HELP FOR AN ADULT CHILD IF THEY TRY HARD ENOUGH

      1. wgaf says:

        SAD DAD
        Jeezus, you again dumbf**k. Are you going to be signing on again as “SAD DAD Son,” too, aS$wipe?

      2. bringbackcommonsense says:

        sad dad is exactly right. It’s called “Assisted Outpatient Treatment,” which allows a court to order that medications be SEEN to be taken as prescribed as a condition of staying in the community. The physical strength of persons who are seriously mentally ill and off their meds is phenomenal, no matter their size. They can be physically violent to themselves and, more likely, to others, requiring equal physical force to subdue them. If Kelly’s father had a restraining order against his son, he knew that his child was dangerous. Blaming police does nothing to solve his son’s problem. Check out http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.com.

    3. Maggie Andras says:

      Well said T Fillmore, The horror of knowing your adult child was killed is more then most could take.. Knowing your adult mentally ill child was killed by a few hateful, cops is undesirably impossible to understand.. Police that take the law into their own hands are far worse then then the common murder. We try to teach our Children to trust and respect them, go to them in time of need. They see more and more police officers beating, kicking and take their power hungry control. We all as citizens need to make sure police officers are punished to the highest level if they abuse or kill anyone, due to their GOD like view of themselves. Otherwise, we might as well count on living in a Nazi Germany Country.

    4. Realist says:

      Oh bleeding hearts…Americans used to be tough…that is until the ACLU was formed

      1. Ian MacLeod says:

        There’s “tough”, and there’s “heartless” and then there’s “sadistic.” Do you know the difference? Kelly didn’t choose his disorder, and you have NO IDEA what he put his family through in the course of almost four decades, or what he would accept or not accept for help. The only certain thing I see here is that Ramos had absolutely no excuse for beating Kelly to death! The man was down and restrained, Tased, and could have done nothing. His head was beaten to a bloody, unrecognizable pulp with a flashlight! WHILE HE WAS DOWN AND RESTRAINED. And no, he wasn’t fighting the cop who killed him.


  9. Justice for Kelly Thomas says:

    Willy, you can’t force an adult patient to take their meds regardless of their disease, neither can clinicians. It’s quite obvious you have no understanding about patient rights. To disrespect the father with your harsh words is unexplainable. Psych patients are the worst to treat because of being non-compliant. Look at the guy who shot all those people in Arizona, he’s locked up in a mental hospital and refuses to take his meds and no judge can order a clinician to force the meds. I’m sure he was mentally ill when he shot all those innocent people at the community affair but he wasn’t taking any meds there and he lived at home with his parents. This is a father who helped his mentally ill son for as long as he could. His son chose to live on the streets and his son chose to not take his meds. That doesn’t mean he didn’t love his son or want him to endure the type of death he received. There’s a saying, you can pick and choose your friends but you can’t pick and choose your family. Your family is going to be who and what they want to be. You can choose to associate with them or not. When his son decided to stop taking his meds and live on the streets they chose not to interact or associate with him because they knew very well how his behavior was going to be. Of course he needs to be there for his son so someone else doesn’t endure the same loss as his family did at the hands of individuals who are hired to serve and protect; not intimidate and beat. Also, the father already publicly stated, any money received in the wrongful death beating of his son is all going to a foundation to help the mentally ill. He said he is not keeping one cent. He is not driven but the fact that he can receive millions for what the Fullerton PD did, only to get justice for his son which he knows the meaning of because he his self was an Orange County Sheriff. If he was money hungry he would have taken the 2 million that the FPD offered him before this all started. But he didn’t. This death was preventable and I’m sure justice will prevail and the officers involved will pay the price for what they did. Termination, and not eligible for rehire…. If Hermosa Beach PD can terminate employees and demote a sargent for covering up a fellow officer’s DUI hit and run, Fullerton can do the same for their officers beating a cilvilian to death. Maybe you should have researched this case a little more before posting such an ignoramus, illogical response.

    1. Smokey says:

      Maybe you should do more reasearch…..Dad had a restraining order aginst his poor homeless mentally ill son. Dad knew his kid was dangerous. Cops are also aware that some of the most dangerous people are the mentally ill. The crazy ones don’t follow directions, are likely violent, and you are no less dead if the mentally ill attack you. Contrary to the political rhetoric by the DA, there was no intent to kill this guy. The intent of the comments to use force on Thomas is a common tactic into verbally getting someone to comply so that force doesn’t have to be used. In other words, if you think I am going to kick your butt and therefore comply, so much the better so that no force is used and no one gets hurt.

  10. Anna says:

    Reading some of your comments, it seems clear to me that you are ignorant to the conversation at hand. If you’ve never had a severly mentally ill friend or family member you have no idea. Once they become of legal age, their parents can no longer force them to live with them, stay on their meds,etc. Many homeless people, because of their mental illness, CHOOSE to be homeless – CHOOSE to live that way. To crucify his father or his family when you were never in their shoes is ignorant, cruel and pouring salt into open wounds. Think before you speak or write. The police have a responsibility that they applied for and accepted…to protect and serve. They did neither here.

    1. Justice for Kelly Thomas says:

      Well said Anna…. You, T. Fillmore, and myself obviously have a little more experience in the area of understanding mentally ill individuals and patient rights… We can only hope justice will prevail.

  11. Accountability says:

    the facts are, at least 2 fullerton police officers terrorized an innocent man with physical violence, before they beat him to death. and, at least 4 other fullerton cops watched it happen, and did nothing to stop it.

    the innocent man’s living arrangements with his parents are irrelevant, and have nothing to do with a gang of out of control cops beating an unarmed citizen to death on the streets of fullerton.

    1. Ian MacLeod says:

      They did more than just “nothing to stop it.” They blocked other citizens who would have helped. they ignored the people who said repeatedly, “Man, quit tasing him! That’s enough!” And others who told the cops they’d done enough. The other cops ENABLED this murder.


  12. Justice says:

    First of all….my biggest fear is that idiots like Willy will end op on the jury. The father has stated publicly that he does intend to sue the officers and any money would be donated or used for something positive. He does NOT intend to profit from this at all. Its so easy for an idiot to just assume the parents want money so they can go blow it in Vegas.
    Secondly, Kelly was a 37 year grown man. Sick or not you can’t force him to take meds, you can’t force him to live at home, you can’t force him to let his parents care for him. He was a grown man.

    1. John says:

      If he is gravely ill, his parents could have had him committed. You are looking at this through a biased eye. This man will profit from this. Mark my words

      1. T Fillmore says:

        In California committing a person requires lengthy court procedures and (in most cases) annual, and sometimes bi-annual court appearances. There is a huge burden of proof for this. I’m not personally aware of a single instance where a commitment attempt such as you describe was successful.

        I would suggest you read up on the process of commitment in California, and where a person would be sent as a result.

      2. Maggie Andras says:

        John, You can not commit someone that easy.. They have to be suicidal and then they only hold them 48 hours to observe. If someone is proven to be a danger to the community then and only then they will be committed.

  13. RALPH says:


  14. TorpedoBoat says:

    Quote – “Being a police officer does not strip you of your constitutional rights.” It also does not allow you to commit MURDER and walk free. Manuel Ramos should pay the ultimate price…

  15. Johnny Popp in L.A. says:

    You people are ALL missing the point ~ As a former Homeless man myself, I can tell you that the Homeless are Ridiculed, Harrassed and Berated by the Cops on a daily basis!
    Whether Kelly was homless or not… it’s not his parents fault and it is HIS Right to be homeless if that’s the way that’s the way HE chooses to live.
    Those COPS Should ALL be Charges as Accessories to the fact ~ They are a Hoodlum Gang just like any other typical Street Gang!

  16. tony afzal says:

    The other day, the LA Tmes ran a report about the case where the defense put forward the statement that the young man was dangerous. If he was dangerous why are not the 5 police officers lying dead in a pool of blood rather than Kelly. Kelly was a young, probably malnourised, unarmed man whereas the police had guns, tasers, batons, flashlights, etc. Who is dangerous here? Give us citizens a break! This group of policeman and others throughout the LA are are armed gangsters with mob-mentalities!

  17. quinton says:

    im confused i do not live in california im just here to visit my sister.. this is my question some of you say that it was the dead mans right to be homeless? his right to live in the streets?? ummmmmmmm is it not against the law to be a vagrent?? where i live (virginia) i belive it is an arrestable offence to be homeless. i dont say the cops had a right to beat him but i do agree that if he was cronicly running away and living on the streets and assuming its against the law as i belive it is then IT IS HIS PARENTS FAULT they could have easily called and had him arrested for being homeless. and before any one says i dont know what im talking about my 18 year old daughter ran off once because she and her 14 year old sister got into a fight. she stayed gone for 3 days before we found her with the help of the police. once she was brought home she was cited for vagrancy and released into our care. and NO SHE COULD NOT do as she pleased unless she had the MEANS to rent a place or arrangements with friends or family to stay with them SHE COULD NOT live on the streets

    1. T Fillmore says:

      It’s not against the law to be homeless in California; based on what you say about your 18 year old daughter running away, in California a missing persons report would probably not be taken by most police departments unless there was probable cause for danger or she was a danger to herself or others. Reason? She is an adult and chose to leave.

      California is not Virginia, and homelessness does not imply vagrancy.

  18. Robert says:

    If you knew anything about the case you would retract your comments. The media keeps using the phrase “homeless” Kelly Thomas was not homeless he went from house to house (parents, siblings, & friends) but occasionally slept on the street. If you knew anything about schizophrenia you would understand why they jump from place to place.

    1. T Fillmore says:

      a Homeless person has no place to call their own – skipping from place to place is almost an absolute definition of homelessness.

  19. mark says:

    What many people posting here do not understand is that schizophrenia is a disease that has a big impact on not only the person that is ill, but on family and friends as well. Doctors don’t even know how to deal with schizophrenic patients. they simply drug them up. So, how much more difficult do you think it would be for non trained people to deal with it? I’ve dealt with people who are schizophrenic and it is not easy. Many experience sleeplessness and will stay up all hours acting out. It puts a lot of stress on a person’s patience and physical well being. The stress that family and friends experience is overwhelming and something that many of people who blame the family on this thread will never understand.

  20. John Ashton says:

    All six of those cops should be punished for thier wrong doing. American is flooded with corrupt cops, its not just a few its the majority. And the only reason this case got attention was the fact that the victim was caucasian. These corrupt cops murder Afro Americans and Latinos unremittingly and walk away with it; just like the four other cops involved in this case.

  21. John says:

    I don’t have a great deal of respect for Ron Thomas. I agree with Willy in that the parents should have gotten the son help. This is just another cop-bashing incident. There are two sides to every story…

  22. Serious? says:

    Ron Thomas needs to crawl into a hole and shut his mouth until the trial. Every citizen in this county has a right to bail unless the judge sets it at “no bail”. His son was probable arrested and let free on bail until his court cases. All the cop haters out there….grow up and act like a responsible person. Law and enforcement of it is necessary for you all to have rights. I don’t like some cops either, but that does not mean all are bad. Just follow the rules and you won’t have problems. If a rogue cops comes across you, complain to his department. Now a days, every complaint gets looked at. Law enforcement is under the microscope now.

    1. T Fillmore says:

      As enforcers of the law police are held to a greater level of accountability.

      I’m not suggesting he should be held without bail, but would like to suggest that the bail amount was set so high because of this.

  23. Disturbed Taxpayer says:

    “I think it was definitely, and I’ve said this from the beginning, a hate crime towards the homeless and the mentally ill. Ramos knew my son very well and he should have handled it much differently, but he didn’t. So I think he was specifically targeted in that very, very aggressive manner because he was homeless and schizophrenic.”

    If, in fact Ramos knew Kelly, he knew he was sick and harmless. The adrenalin rush of “being in control” is all it takes to go too far and kill someone. Regan closed all the mental facilties and it’s not going to get any better becausse we would rather take care of people from outside or our country instead. The money is not there to do both anymore!

  24. Dee says:

    No one seems to point out the safety of the police officers who risked their lives everyday. I know its their jobs and yes, there are some bad ones but in this case, dealing w/ a mentally unstable man is always a difficult issue. Their physical strength is not to be taken lightly and the chance of injury is always high for both parties.

    The media keeps mentioning the fact the grown man ask for his dad is nothing more than over-dramatizing this incident. The guy is crazy and dangerous just like Loughner who shot Gibbons and Garrido who raped and kidnapped Dugard.

    1. T Fillmore says:

      All law enforcement officers accept as part of their job the possibility and likelihood of danger and injury. This is in part why there is so much training involved, so they do not get hurt. This is also one reason why they carry weapons.

      Stating that the police acted as they did simply because the person was mentally ill is a roundabout way of saying that it’s OK for police to use any force necessary to minimize their own injury. Please note that the persons you mentioned actively partook of their crimes, but there is no suggestion here that a crime was committed by the son, only that he was in the area. In other words he was a suspect, and nothing more.

      Regarding over dramatizing the situation – most people, I believe, would interpret calling out for your parent as a last attempt at getting help, calling the one person they knew would never let this happen if they were there. Can you not picture this being true? Is this not a plain sign that the person felt they were in serious, serious harm? Please note that the fact that the officers knew this person was mentally ill from past encounters indicates they had at least some idea of what the son was and would be like.

      I do not want to see any law enforcement professional to get hurt or killed, and really respect their putting their lives on the line for me; but, I also believe that what happened probably did not need to happen.

      1. Dee says:

        so how exactly do you handle a mentally ill man who won’t comply at all? do you block of the streets and disrupt everyones lives? All this for a deranged man who serves no purpose in our society. What about the dad? he cared so much he left him in the streets coz the son was an adult and it was his choice.

        I really don’t know if the 2 cops are good or bad. I know for a fact their jobs are not easy and mistakes happen but I’m not gonna be on the dad’s side to say the 2 cops should be in prison.

    2. Jamie Chambers says:

      this policfe officer went beyond and killed a nd iits on film and sudio to boot
      RAMOS is a killer and enjoyed it and also a sour police officer is worse that
      a serial killer

  25. Bill Wooley says:

    The reporter says “prelitemary.” NICE!

  26. amom says:

    You are very quick to judge and clearly ignorant of the difficulties involved in having a beloved family member that suffers with mental illness.

  27. Jeremy says:

    The police are just a corrupt as the people they arrest. i have 3 friends who are Sheriffs in the LA and OC area and the stories I hear are ridiculous. This blog makes me sick, commenting on the fathers responsibility. Isn’t the case based on a bunch o fprima-donnas’ beating a defenseless guy. Give me a break when people say the cops were defending themselves. The cops had no reason to beat and kill this guy. Cops are just as corrupt.

    1. Realist says:

      Jeremy…you sound like a pot head druggie whos been busted by the cops one too many times. Its evident by your resentment toward authority.

    2. Realist says:

      you’ve probably had your ass kicked by the cops for running your mouth after you were busted with that crack pipe in your backpack.

  28. gene says:

    Why doesn’t everyone wait until it’s heard in court. Don’t base your opinion of what happened on media hype and the rantings of a father looking for a payday. His vast experience as an Orange County Deputy Sheriff is questionable since he was only a deputy for six years. My guess all of it served in the jail system. He probably never did a day in a radio car and never had to fight with an individual with mental illness. Give the system a chance. Its worked fairly well for more than 200 years. In the mean time, just shut up.

  29. QWERTY says:

    “….I need to be there for my son….” TOO LATE BUD!!!

  30. Christina39 says:

    Go to Fullertonsfurture.org and read the “BRAIN DEATH REPORT” for Kelly Thoms and see how those two monters beat Kelly Thomas even after he was unconsious and read the severe and sadistic beating he received resulting in his dealth due to severe facial, chest and head injuries as well as being tazed even after he wss unconscious.. Any time one of you stink pigs wants to go one on one with me let me now. A decent person would commit suicide. TWO MONSTERS ARE WALKING THE STREETS OF CALIFORNIA. JUST UNBELIEVEABLE THEY ARE NOT GIVEN A LETHAL INJECTION.

    1. Realist says:

      The video doesnt show him being beat after he was unconsious…where are you getting your facts from?….you must be related to the loving family of this guy….the family who cared so much about him that they slept at home in their warm cushy beds, and ate steak and lobster while their poor little Kelly dove in dumpsters and slept on benches.

      1. john thomas says:

        To attack the victim’s family is the best chant that these pitiful cop sniffers can come up with. The people aren’t fooled, we know the facts. These cops are pukes.

  31. terry may says:

    regardless of what the situation was. extreme and sadistic force was used period. The police officers should and hopefully be jailed for what they did.
    the worst criminals are not treated this way. the way the officers beat him
    was unjust period. the many times he was hit in the face was so uncalled for.
    that officer was a bully behind a badge.

    1. Christina39 says:


      1. Pat Robertson says:

        sorry, babe some of us have our own lives to deal with. Maybe you should get one, toots.

  32. Joe Joe says:

    How are we sure that Kelly wasn’t calling out for his Dad to stop beating him? Being Schizophrenic, he may have thought it was his Dad doing the beating. Oh and Christina39, you sound like a tough guy! or is it gal???

    1. Christina39 says:

      I am a female, I am 5:4 ad 135 pounds and not young and I will will win because I hate them so much for what they did. It’s possible to get extra strength when up against a monster. Mother’s have lifted cars off their children. ONE WELL PLACED KICK!!!!!!!

  33. mindy says:

    this is my simple belife if your child has mental issues and they are not able to properly take care of them selfs past the age of 18 THEN IT IS YOUR DUTY TO TAKE CARE OF THEM FOR LIFE plain and simple you brought that boy into this world its not your fault he was sick BUT it is your fault he is dead you did not do enough to take care of him parenthood does not stop at 18 when your child is special needs like this you do what you have to for the rest of your natural days to take care of them even if it is HARD TO HANDLE

    1. Christina39 says:

      It is very difficult to care for a schizophrenic. As kind as your intentions are, many of them cannot be managed at home and want to live on the streets. The vast majority are harmless as was Kelly Thomas. Unortunately they become victims to sadistic people, sociopaths and cops. Before Ronald Reagan Law was put into place in the 50s I belive, there were state run mental institituions which housed and medicated them. In California is was Camarillo State Mental Hospital.

      1. Maggie Andras says:

        Sorry Christina, that was ment for Mindy

      2. Realist says:

        So if the family cared so damn much…why didn’t they pay to place him in a facility? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm………

    2. Maggie Andras says:

      Christina, parents can’t restrain, lock doors, keep them in and not allow them to leave on their own accord. Otherwise, the parents could be jailed for imprisonment.

  34. Yippie Yi Yea says:

    Logic tells me if the officers knew he was mentally ill and this should be the base of the prosecutions argument, then what doctors will testify is the fact that when the mentally handicapped resist arrest and are beaten they do not know what the meaning of the word COMPLY is nor the justification of the punishing blows of an object being impacted upon there defenseless bodies. This case will be hard to Judge.

    1. Realist says:

      So Yippie…based on your heartfelt pity for the mentally ill…are we to understand that a mentally ill person is not capable of hurting anyone simply because they dont understand the word COMPLY? Does that mean that a law enforcement officer should put himself at risk for the sake of a mentally ill person who has a history of violence and a criminal record? How exactly should they have dealt with him? How would you have dealt with him in your vast experience of subduing combative individuals? Anyone who has ever been in a physical altercation knows, that at eny given second, the tables can turn and you can end up dead. If you are going to engage a person, you do so with enough force to overpower and subdue. Sometimes that means that the other person may get very badly hurt, or even killed.

      1. T Fillmore says:

        Sir –

        Reading through your comments reveals that you exhibit a violent, passive-agressive emotional state. How would you suggest you be addressed for this?

      2. sad dad says:

        T FILLMORE using the term SIR on your posts is very CONDESENDING seeing as how not all the names used in the posts give indication as to a gender. we have read all your posts and i find that you have a very skewed outlook on what a mentally ill person can or can not be compelled to do you state that a child can not be forced to take its meds YES THEY CAN you state that a parent of a minor has no rights to ask the doctor about the childs treatments THE PARENT HAS EVERY RIGHT and the doctor MUST tell the parent exactly what he/she is giving in the way of meds and what he/she hopes to accomplish with any treatments. you are right that it is harder with an adult child but NO WHERE NEAR as hard as you try to make it seem. my wife and i got a court order over our adult son THE FIRST TIME WE TRIED mearly showing the police reports stating he had assulted me and the 5 officers sent to control him when he assulted me. we as in my wife and i now monitor his meds DAILY and he is now 24 and this order will stay in place as long as WE SEE FIT yes we have to go for anual visits to update the courts but so what how hard is that?

      3. T Fillmore says:

        sad dad – use of the term ‘Sir’ is intended to show respect, and nothing more. It’s quite a commonplace and accepted practice to use the male gender when one is not known. This is what I was taught in school, from elementary through university.

        Sorry if it offends you, none is meant.

  35. willy says:

    @ roger my 18 year old lives in my home which mean i am still MORALLY responsible for her if she gets hurt because i allowed her to go someplace (REMEMBER she asked my PERMISSION so she is by her own will SUBMISSIVE to my authority.) it would be my fault so because i did not feel relaxed with her camping out and also did not want to deny her the fun of seeing this concert with her friends (something she deserved because shes a good kid) i mearly followed them to keep them safe you call it stalking i call it protecting one of the 4 most precious things i have in my life. i admit my views are a little odd in this day and age. many parents i know KICK their kids out when they turn 18 telling them they must now fly on their own i personally find that wrong. if i send my kids out when they are 18 to fend for them selfs totally i am doing them a dis-service because i really want them to finish college and if they have to pay their own way totally i see no possible way to do that. so i give them a home and food till they finish school and get good jobs to pay their own way. now if they want PERKS like fancy cell phones with all the fancy apps they have to pay for that (past 18) i give her a basic phone that calls where she needs to call but i dont pay for all the fancy junk that is not needed if she wants that she can add it and pay it for the add ons her self. that is basicly where my anger with mr thomas lies. his son was not able to fend for him self i dont think anyone here even if you disagree with my views will say that kelly was fit to be on his own. so my anger is that his parents and by the way we have not heard word one from his mother assuming shes still alive. i simply feel it is ALWAYS the duty of a parent to see to their kids needs till that kid is able to do it alone. some say kids like kelly refuse help. I personally cant see why any one would turn down LOVING HELP unless of course it is not given with love maybe this father was so frustrated with kellys problems that he him self was not so kind in which case YA i can see why kelly might want to be on the streets.

    1. wgaf says:

      Oops, that should be “your 18 y.o ….” so don’t get your panties in a bunch about that.

  36. that's right. says:

    these 2 cops need to be taken off the police force, and hopefully at the trial they will get what they deserve. The police are not here to beat our citizens to death on the street. Not in America. Trust me, if these bad cops r not stopped they will do it again…2 u , 2 me, 2 anyone. They like the power.

    1. sandy says:

      i honestly have not followed this case so tell me this THAT’S RIGHT the two cops you say need to go down or they will do it again? does either have any PAST issues of this or any violent complaint issues?? i venture to say not or someone would have seen to it they got the axe before so i venture to think that this was a ONE TIME ISSUE for both cops again i dont know that they did what it is said they did nor do i know they did not. but assuming they did and there is no prior evidance that either did it before what leads you to think they would do it again?

      1. Christina39 says:

        Jay Cicinelli has a past. He is a violent thug with brain damage who was rejected by the LAPD. I think manny Ramos had previous gang ties, but that is alleged.

  37. Christina39 says:

    When are you going to realize that the cops are nothng but another dangerous gang like all he others chosing the dumbest of thw dumb and those who like to kill.

    1. MrFox says:

      Yup, right on the mark. I would only add that they are also adrenaline junkies, looking to escalate the most mundane situation into a crisis… not at all what you want from a police officer.

  38. Christina39 says:


  39. uhoh says:

    I bet he skips bail and runs for the border. Isn’t that a tradition?

  40. uhoh says:

    I bet he will skip bail and run for the border. Isn’t that a tradition. I’m sure his uncle has an opening in the cartel.

  41. john thomas says:

    All of the officer’s objectives should have been to cuff the suspect. That’s it, plain and simple. That 4 officers held him down while one of them beat him with the butt of a taser shows accessory to murder by all. These cops did this as routinely that day as they’d done it before and as they were trained by the cops who had done it before. Wake up folks. This type of criminal police action must result in harsh consequences.

  42. Realist says:

    I think all Law Enforcement Officers should have the legal right to kick the living snot out of every criminal who refuses to comply. Criminals need to be dealt with exactly the way they deal with their victims. Society as a whole holds this high moral standard that the criminal element does not subscribe to. They operate within the creases of our moral code to victimize and perpetrate crimes without fear of reprisal or consequence. Clearly, they dont care about jail, but I promise you, they care if their lives are at risk. People need to stop being so idealistic because world peace and tranquility will never exist. Men have been killing men since the beginning of time and it will never stop. So let’s level the playing field and put the fear of death into these creeps that walk our streets.

  43. wgaf says:

    Too bad it’s the balls up your ass that do all the talking as there are a lot of people that would want to be there to see you try.

  44. wgaf says:

    Sorry about all of my immature, mean posts everyone. My boyfriend left me and now I have to scour the bars in West Hollywood to find tricks- I am always tired so forgive my ignorant ways.

  45. DAX says:

    Hey Moron you know nothing of their story or why he was on the street etc. so don’t judge and make stupid comments

  46. MrFox says:

    Well if is it isn’t ol’ “blame the victim” Willy.

  47. Phiilip says:

    I am truly sorry your son was murdered, but I have grown tired of listening to everyone…on BOTH sides ramble on about this. The judicial process will keep my interest in the future.

  48. J says:

    I find those people who try to shift responsibility for this heinous murder on to Kelly himself, or his parents, to be amazingly ignorant and downright offensive.

    Kelly did not die because he had a mental illness. Kelly did not die because he CHOSE to live his life on the streets (homeless). Kelly did not die because he had hidden anger/rage issues. Kelly did not die because the cops were never properly trained.

    Kelly died because a band of sick, twisted, gang-banging “law enforcement” thug-bullies were working that night and CHOSE to brutalize a lone, 135 pound mentally ill homeless man to the point that his facial bones were crushed and he extensive head and neck injuries. They CHOSE to repeatedly tase him under the color of law. Those sick, twisted, uniformed, power-tripping sadists were exclusively, only, totally, uniquely, and comprehensively responsible Kelly’s death.

    So to all you nimrods out there that keep trying to turn the facts upside down, and make this a story about homelessness, or Kelly’s mental illness, or what his parents did or didn’t do, or how the cops were trained or not trained, please just shut up. You are embarrasing yourself.

    No cop needs to be “trained” not to crush a man’s face, tase him repeatedly suffocate him, and then hogtie him.

    The cowards that did this would have done this regardless of what “training” they had or didn’t have.

  49. J says:

    This was heinous crime committed by a gang. That gang now needs to spend some quality time living on a general population tier at the nearest state correctional facility.

    Whatever happened to that chief that ran off and burried his head in the sand, on the tax-payers’ dime?

  50. J says:

    Oh my God…I am just now reading through some of the posts in here.

    Why would anyone think that Kelly’s ability to “comply,” or his motivation not to “comply” has anything whatsoever to do with the torturous brutalization he endured.

    Those sadistic cops were not simply trying to force him to comply. They were clearly trying to do … well…. exactly what they said (and recorded) they wanted to do… to “F*** you up”

    This case has nothing to do with police training or interpreting a suspect’s ability to comply. OMG!

    A gang of gang-banging, thug criminals with badges tortured a man to death oni the street that night. It is really not any more or less complicated than that.

  51. J says:

    I can’t hardly believe there are people in here defending these “law enforcement” thugs. That is sad and disturbing. For that means it may be possible such deranged, detached, cold-hearted, callous nimrods could end up on the jury.

    What they did was downright inhumane. It was Abu Ghraib-like. The degree of sadism and callousness that was illuminated in this case is freightening. Please remember something very important here, there were ultimately SIX (not five, not four, not three, not two, not one) BUT SIX! “law enforcement” officers that either directly tortured Kelly to death or insulated, protected and enabled his murder. That is scary. Five are accomplices to this murder.

    What, I can only wonder, was going through their minds as Kelly laid silent, drifting in his own gutter-filled sea of blood as that fat little barrel of refried burito sausage and his one-eyed girlfriend pummeled and tasered him repeatedly?

    What, I can only wonder, were they thinking when they assisted in this murder?

  52. Ian MacLeod says:

    Willy – It’s easy enough to judge, but Kelly Thomas was in his late thirties. Schizophrenic or not, he had rights too, including being out on his own. And would you have slept on the street by your son for thirty, forty years? How hard is it raising a son like that, especially if he won’t cooperate in his own care? i don’t know that Kelly didn’t, but you don’t either. And treatment can get VERY expensive; sometimes living with a parent can disqualify people help with treatment, too. As for accusing Ron Thomas of being money-grubbing, what other options does he have for SOME kind of redress? Fullerton has had a number of incidents like this, and as usual, cops don’t get held accountable.

    I DID see the video, and read the comments of people who knew him. They described him as gentle, quiet. That mental condition means he’s not in contact with consensus reality – it could be in any of countless ways. He panicked, ran from a cop who chased him down, held him down and beat him to death. Period. That’s murder, and if he wasn’t wearing a badge he’d be in jail awaiting trial for murder. You can see this cop sitting on Kelly in the video, hear the Taser over and over, hear the cops yell “Stop resisting!” when Kelly is TIED UP and barely moving! That cop is a psychopath. There was simply no possible reason for what he did.


  53. rick says:

    Yea some father, sick kid and you let him live on the street. Then you got this idiot wgaf who sounds like the boss at the ACLU.

  54. David J. says:

    Yo- Willy. You in my opinion are very, very i don’t even know what to call it. Your like, trying to tell this Kelly Thomas how to run his life. And how to react to whatever situations he’s involved with according to you? What really made me angry is the fact that, what, now you don’t care if the police were wrong? Give me a break would you please!! And so your posting here like maybe this guy used his troubled son as bait, or what? I think you are nuts crazy. Who the heck do you think you are anyway?

  55. Muck Fu says:

    Saw pictures of those cops.They look like trouble..probably abused or bullied as youngsters.Those 2 cops should rot in hell. RIP Mr.Thomas.

  56. Malik King says:

    My condolences to the Thomas family. I am truly sorry for your lost, for I was almost murdered in the same fashion, in the same Orange County California; just four months prior.

    On March 9, 2011 several Police brutally ordered a K-9 to attack an unarmed, California Registered (RN). The California Highway Patrol (CHP) in Orange County then attempted to cover up the incident.

    Malik King, a reportedly Licensed Vocational Nurse (LVN) since nineteen and RN since twenty three, is said to have initially attempted to steal a car. Later, it was found he was the owner of that Mercedes. What ensued next on the part of several officers goes well beyond the bounds of simply trying to subdue their suspect.

    The several police officers ordered a police K-9 to attack him while he was still fastened in his seat-belt; tasered multiple times while the K-9 attacked for over one minute and thirty seconds, then hand cuffed, slammed to the concrete, hog tied, beat and kicked in the head until unconscious. He was then taken to jail, accused of multiple felonies, and had to pay $50,000 for bail.

    Despite witnesses and the clear brutality of the beating, kicking, tasering, and ordered K-9 attack, California Highway Patrol allowed several officers to remain active and attempted a cover-up.
    Violations of federal law occur when it can be shown that the force used was willfully “unreasonable” or “excessive”. By signing this petition you agree that “unreasonable” or “excessive force” was used on Malik A. King on March 9, 2011 in Orange County, California.

    The beating of Mr. King is sickening and disturbing. The police involved in the beating and cover up must be brought to justice. Tell Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas to thoroughly investigate and prosecute the officers involved in the brutality of Malik A. King,LVN,RN.


    Malik King,LVN,RN