LONG BEACH (CBS) — A 780-year-old religious relic of the patron saint of lost causes and missing objects was stolen from a Catholic church near Los Angeles on Monday, just hours after it was put on display to commemorate the feast of St. Anthony, police said.

The relic, which is only brought out on special occasions, was stolen from inside a cabinet beside the altar at the St. Anthony Catholic Church in Long Beach on Monday morning, police Lt. Paul Arcala said.

The Reverend Jose Magana said he decided to bring out the relic this year, on the 780th anniversary of the death of St. Anthony, because many of his parishioners have lost hope in the rough economy.

“It has no financial value, but it’s our history, so it’s irreplaceable,” Magana said. “It belongs to the church, not just the church here in Long Beach, but the entire Catholic church.”

The church opened at 6 a.m., and when Magana turned to the relic during the 9 a.m. Mass, it had disappeared. Magana could hear his parishioners gasp when they realized it was gone, but he continued with the service and called police immediately afterward.

Arcala said the relic is housed in a 16-inch tall case with angel-shaped handles made of gold and silver on either side. He declined to describe it further because that might jeopardize the investigation.

The last time it was on view was eight years ago, to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the parish. In Catholicism, relics are usually part of a saint’s body or clothes, revered as a physical connection to the saint.

While church members are upset that someone would steal a holy object, their faith is still strong.

“They said, `Father, he’s the patron saint of lost causes, so he’ll come home,”‘ Magana said.

Police are looking for a person of interest who was curious about the relic earlier Monday morning, got too close and had to be asked to step away, Arcala said. The woman was in her late 30s and was short heavyset with wavy, shoulder-length black hair.

“I’m hoping we’ve got some higher sources who’ve got our backs here and we can get it back,” Magana said. “People here are pretty upset but they’re praying. They’re praying to St. Anthony for the return of his own object.”

(© Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)

Comments (222)
  1. Calgal says:

    St. Anthony is the patron saint of lost things, not lost causes. St Jude is the patron saint of lost causes.

    1. mike smith says:

      That means St. Jude is the patron saintg of Obama?

      1. Chris says:

        No, just the Cubs.

    2. Garth Milnert says:

      That is one of the big differences between the Catholic Religion and the Gospel of Christ…. “They’re praying to St. Anthony for the return of his own object” Praying to someone else besides Jesus. Jesus is the only moderator between God and man. Can’t pray to anyone else. It falls on deaf ears.

      1. cybro says:

        Well then we will have to ask St. Anthony to pray for your loss of understanding and faith.

      2. Mark says:

        “Garth Milnert

        That is one of the big differences between the Catholic Religion and the Gospel of Christ…. “They’re praying to St. Anthony for the return of his own object” Praying to someone else besides Jesus. Jesus is the only moderator between God and man. Can’t pray to anyone else. It falls on deaf ears”

        Garth…is this the only argument you protestants can make? It’s really getting old already. But just in case you need to hear it for the billionth time, Catholics don’t pray TO the saints, we pray that THEY pray for our intentions. Do you ever ask your friends to pray for you???? Welll then, what’s the difference?

    3. Fredie garcia says:

      catholic church started by st peter protestant church started by whoever feels like it nuff sed

      1. icecream says:

        Our friends that we ask to pray for us are still HERE WITH US. Those who were “sainted” by the Catholic Church have passed away centuries ago. Praying to the dead, even though they were honorable, amounts to “necromancy”.
        According to the Bible, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior ts the mediator that we go through to get to Almighty God.

  2. Billl R. says:

    Wasn’t there something about not worshiping any graven images?

    1. A reader says:

      The relics are not “worshiped”,. They serve as a tangible reminder of the saint and of God’s love within each of us.

    2. joe says:

      “Once while some Israelites were burying a man, suddenly they saw a band of raiders; so they threw the man’s body into Elisha’s tomb. When the body touched Elisha’s bones, the man came to life and stood up on his feet.” 2 Kgs 13:20

      “God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, 12so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them. ” Acts 19:11-12

      Catholics don’t worship relics, but there is certainly Biblical support for the use of them.

      1. elihu says:

        You’d better go back to reinterpreting that verse if that’s what you get from it! Sad!

      2. Topheh says:

        I Love it.

        If you find a verse in the bible that supports your position, its clearly correct. If Catholics find a verse in the bible that supports their position, they are ‘Sad’ for finding that verse.

        And honestly, does it matter? No Catholic believes that they are worshiping, and it is what we do in our hearts that God sees. We all worship Christ, and thats what matters.

    3. GAlanJag says:

      Could you make the case that the crucifix at the front of just about any Christian church is a graven image?

      1. SteveS says:

        Crucifixes are in Catholic and Orthodox churches, no others.

  3. joe says:

    …because somebody might take them? The relic wasn’t put on display to worship.

  4. Doc d20 says:

    Agree with cliff & Billl R.: Best to steer our Catholic bretheren away from idolatry.

    1. Gerald says:

      Veneration is not idolotry or worship.

      1. 76 says:

        You are right Gerald. It is amazing how many people attack Catholic practices without actually knowing anything about them.

      2. dennis says:

        I attend an Orthodox church. We don’t worship our Icons.

      3. elihu says:

        “Veneration” is a matter of semantics that was imparted in place of using the world “Worship” so as not to be charged with idolatry. It didn’t work!

      4. Gerald says:

        Not only are we not worshipping wood and paint, we are not worshipping the saint depicted. We are venerating the image of God in them. Anyone who does shouldn’t be, and anyone outside the faith who tells someone inside the faith that what they are doing when they don’t really know needs to be quiet on this.

    2. Calgal says:

      To the misinformed about Catholiicism, Catholics worship only God. Statues and relics of people are like reminders of that person. They are of people who we feel have lived holy lives and are close to God. When we pray to them, we are asking them to interceed for us and to pray for us. Not really much different from when we ask a friend to pray for us when we are sick or when we are having troubles in our lives. We absolutely do not worship them, nor do we think the statues have any kind of magical powers. They are not idols. Those who say so, have no understaning of the Catholic Faith.

      1. lukuj says:

        Exactly1 Thank you for writing this so I don’t have to do so. Never in 16 years of Catholic education was i told to “worship” a saint. In fact, I was cautioned against it.

      2. elihu says:

        I spent 50+ years in the RCC ‘system’, including all schooling. If you really believe what you are writing here, then you have really drank Rome’s Koolade…The Bible is the only source of truth; anything else was imparted by fallible man, including all of your so-called ‘popes’.

      3. Jeff Novak says:

        Hey, Elihuooey. How about you and I take a quiz on the Catechism of the Catholic Church and what they actually teach. I’m betting that you learned less than your vaunted 50+ years you keep highlighting on your resume than I forget every day what the Church teaches. Sitting in class does not necessarily a student make…

      4. NeoNicene says:

        Hey Elihu,

        Did you Bible come with a list of the books that should be included in it? Oh no, it didn’t. What authority then says that the books you include in your Bible should be there? The Church, brother. Also, it a shame that you were not around in the first centuries of the church so that you would teach those first Christians how to understand the faith properly. Think of all the early Christians (in whose line the Orthodox and Catholics now stand) who could have used your help in figuring out what Christians really should believe. It’s too bad for the Orthodox and Catholics that the ‘true’ faith was only determined much later by American evangelicals. I sometimes wonder if you people are real or are just trolling.

      5. Topheh says:

        “There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church….As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do.” ARCHBISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN

      6. dawgtired says:

        Just one more comment on the apparent ignorance of Eilhu. There were Chrisitians decades before the first book was ever written in the New Testament. There were Jews for years and years before there was ever anything recorded in the Old Testament. So how did the Christians become converts? Oh yeah, the spoken word, preaching. Who was preaching? Oh yeah, this fallible thing known as man. There is not one word written in the Bible that was not put there by man with man’s thoughts and his understanding of God’s word. If you think God dictated every word in the Bible then you need to check into Islam and the Koran. I think you may be confusing the two. I cannot believe you are this clueless after spending 50+ years in the RCC “system”. And yes the pope is fallible. The only time infallibility is claimed is when he speaks “ex cathedra” in matters of faith and that has only happened a few times in the history of the church. Good Lord…did you learn nothing?

      7. Dawgtired says:

        OK I promise this is the last one to Eilhu. If the Bible is the only source of truth….where in the Bible does it say that?

      8. Dee says:

        As a Christian I find it shocking that anyone would pray to dead ‘saints.’ It really is no different than praying to ‘other gods.’ Why? Because the New Testament doesn’t even mention praying to saints. It’s totally made up by the Catholic Church. Please read your Bibles and don’t depend on tradition to make you think you’re on the right track – no matter how good it might seem.

      9. icecream says:

        The Holy Bible says that JESUS is our ONLY intercessor.

    3. chad says:

      what does it matter you how a catholic worships. Is it hurting you..is so please explain how. Is it hurting God ? I doubt it hes a big boy he can handle it.

    4. r.s.j. says:

      It’s best that you read the history of Christianity and realize that Christ founded one church, not the 40k bable of protestant churches. Each person is its own God, each person is its own church….it called anarchy! Each church contradicts the others in certain forms. Its all up to the indvidual to decide what is right or wrong…..that called relativism. So in brief I need to help steer away from this disaster.

  5. Gerald says:

    Veneration is not worship.

    1. elihu says:

      I spent 50 years in the RCC before converting to Biblcal Christianity. Don’t tell me it’s not worshiping! Idolatry. Mariolitry! One day you’ll see the truth!

      1. Robert C says:

        You sound like you learned a lot in those 50 years. Since this “Biblical Christianity” (unmentioned in the Bible, by the way) must come from the Bible, from where did the Bible come from? This is like eating eggs and being disgusted by hens. Has it occurred to “Biblical” Christians that it is just as possible to worship and idolize books, as it is to idolize a particular saint? God did not give us a book, he gave us His Son, who in turn gave us a Church. To say “sola scriptura” is an insult to Christ. Does this mean Christ’s method of preaching (not writing) was inadequate? Does this mean only the literate can achieve salvation? And which translation is the correct? Surely you know Greek and Hebrew, so that you can have the most enlightened understanding of each passage (how else would you arrive at the fullness of truth through your personal page-skimming). The Bible Alone? Not Christ Alone? “Alone” (sola) certainly has the effect of excluding all else, no?

        It is unfathomable to “Bible Christians” that Christianity would exist even had the Bible ever been canonized. I dont worship Saints OR the Bible, I worship the Holy Trinity: God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Bible is invaluable. But its not the Bible “alone” that it is good and true. The “Trinity alone” is true. And the Son created a Church. Catholics and Protestants dont disagree on that last part; its just that Catholics have answered the question “Where is this Church?” while Protestants have not. We say it is Rome headed by the successor of Peter. The “RCC” is not a denomination–it proclaims itself to be THE Church. What do Protestants and “Bible Christians” say? The best Ive heard is that “The Church” is an abstract institution with no location on earth. So what did Christ mean when he told the Apostles at Pentecost, whatever the bind and loose on Earth, shall be bound and loosed in Heaven? Was it just that generation that had authority? Period? Im a little confused by all these Bible passages that indicate Christ’s intent to establish a single, unified Church, built on top of Peter, who was undisputedly the leader among the Apostles.

        So, despite having no reasonable foundation for “The Church,” which we all agree does exist, Protestants like Elihu think they have figured something out that nobody else did for 20 centuries. And they think of the Bible as some self-creating, self-authenticating source that was floating in the primordial soup with the Trinity, from the beginning of time (not man-made). And it never occurs to him that there can be a such a thing as Bible-idolozation.

        Actually, its just neo-Gnosticism.

        And thanks to that pagan “RCC,” which decided to close the canon against heretical Gnostics with their personal interpretations (sound familiar?) this book was canonized as the definitive inspired Word. In other words, Christ created a Church, and men (of that Church) created the writings that would become the books of the Bible (eg, Sts Paul and John, and James, etc). Then other men of that Church closed that Bible off in the midst of heretical interpretations abounding in the Christian world (at the Council of Hippo). Then a man of the Church decided “the Church” needed his unsolicited revising in the 1500s. Other men followed, some out of good faith motives to reform the Church (Calvin) others out of diabolical ulterior motives (Henry VIII, grandfather of King James).

        Now, after 2000 years, Americans calling themselves Bible Christians take it upon themselves to condemn the last 20 centuries of Biblical preservation. You know Elihu, its too bad the early Church didnt have YOU around to help them get it right about Biblical interpretation. (And as a Catholic who knows plenty of lapsed Catholics, Im not impressed by your self-proclaimed expertise on Catholicism. Having the title “Catholic” means nothing if you spend 50 years in ignorance.)

      2. Lou says:

        Well said, Robert C.

    2. Gerald says:

      I am an Orthodox Christian, not Roman Catholic. We do not worship Mary, but we do ask for her (and other holy ones’) prayers, since the prayer of a righteous person availeth much.

    3. Brad Sperry says:

      This is the standard word games that occur in the catholic church…

    4. ml says:

      Brad, I am Catholic. Give me some credit! I know the difference between veneration and worship. I venerate my mom for caring for two mentally challenged sons her whole adult life. I venerate my aunt for the way she handled her cancer. I venerate saints and Mary for the way they handled difficult situations in their lives. I worship one and that is God.

    5. St. Joseph says:

      So? The Biblical directive is to not even make such things. It’s best that it’s gone. The faithful at St. Anthony’s can now direct their “veneration” to God alone – where it belongs.

    6. St. Joseph says:

      Ml – have you made statues of your mom and your aunt? Do you pray to them?
      Chances are – no, you don’t. Don’t mince words. You know better than that.

    7. Christopher Andrews says:

      no, but others here have a picture of their wife that they’ve kissed from time to time when they were only a long journey – that is veneration – and we do it with humans all the time…

    8. HMichaelH says:

      What is it, then?

    9. Brad says:

      You really have to wonder how God will judge all those Fundies who so readily spew such hate at the idea of giving honor to Jesus’ own mother. What are they going to say when they face Jesus on Judgment Day .. “Hey Jesus, make sure you condemn anyone who venerated your mom. ” I mean, sheesh, I wouldn’t wanna be anywhere near the front of the line for the response.

      “For, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.”

    10. St. Joseph says:

      A picture of your wife is not the same thing as a statue of God, or of someone that’s in heaven. Those things can’t be represented by pictures. This is why God prohibits them. They diminish God. If you need to be reminded of God in a statue, your relationship with God comes into question.

    11. St. Joseph says:

      “You really have to wonder how God will judge all those Fundies who so readily spew such hate at the idea of giving honor to Jesus’ own mother. What are they going to say when they face Jesus on Judgment Day .”

      Don’t be a goofball Brad. The only thing you’ll need to tell Jesus is what you did with HIM. Even Jesus said when told that his mother was at the door looking for Him:

      “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

      So, it looks like Jesus might ask me “Did you do the will of my Father?” before he asks me anything about Mary.

  6. Baker says:

    It’s not idol worship; it’s honoring them. Please don’t spread lies.

    1. Steve says:

      You should only honor Christ and only Him alone. No saints, no Mary, no one else. Revelation 5:12

      It’s only Jesus Christ who receives all Glory and Honor.

    2. Topheh says:

      Oh! You mean I don’t have to honor my father and mother anymore? Excellent! Those pesky Ten commandments are so old-fashioned.

  7. 76 says:

    Catholics do not “worship” relics or idols. Also, a statue is not an “idol.” We also do not worship Mary or Saints, we ask for their intercessions. There is a difference.

    1. elihu says:

      Maybe you should really READ the Second commandment!

    2. Kevin says:

      Catholics are in denial. Why have anyone in your faith other than Jesus? The Bible is very clear that Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and man.

    3. Freedom says:

      Wait! I am not even Christian, and that is a ridiculous statement.
      Statues ARE idols, by definition.

      As per websters dictionary:
      Definition of IDOL

      : a representation or symbol of an object of worship; broadly : a false god
      a : a likeness of something
      b obsolete : pretender, impostor
      : a form or appearance visible but without substance
      : an object of extreme devotion ; also : ideal 2
      : a false conception : fallacy

      So, if you don’t even know the meaning of the word int eh first place, you don’t have a lot to say about what it is or is not.

    4. David Geffeney says:

      How is it any different than the brazen serpent of the old testament that had to be destroyed because they kept (putting it on display) worshipping it. Moses made it in numbers 21, then destroyed in Kings (verse link below)


      I am afraid that Catholics do indulge in rituals, repetitions, idols, and mysticism (conjuring of dead people to intercede for you).

    5. mitchell says:

      50 Million American waych american Idol, does that mean Scotty is worshiped or a statue? Sometime logic is just a way to be wrong with authority.

    6. Brad Sperry says:

      God has said he will not give his glory to another (Isaiah 48:11). Worshipping Him gives him glory. Worshipping Mary is standard paganism only the names occasionally change. Sometimes not –

      Jeremiah 7:18
      The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the QUEEN OF HEAVEN. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger.

      God is NOT pleased with worshipping, venerating, honoring anything that robs him of his well-deserved glory. As all Christians are considered saints ( http://www.justforcatholics.org/a50.htm ) in the Bible there is no reason for anyone attaining “saithood”. It is just another method for making idols and controlling the Biblically-illiterate.

      “You shall have no other gods before Me.
      “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
      “You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
      but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

      Looks very cut and dried to me.

    7. Bill says:

      Freedom, so you are saying if I have a statue of a frog next to my pond that statue is an idol???

    8. Bill says:

      elihu, by the most literal reading of the second commandment you should not have any type of statue or picture in your home at all and some Christian sects actually practice this and refuse to allow pictures to be taken of them (Hutterites). But when God told the Isrealites to build a vessel (the Ark) to place the commandments in he instructed them to make statues of angels to adorn it.

    9. Dawgtired says:

      Maybe Elihu should read the ninth commandment about bearing false witness. Fifty years in the RCC and still clueless. WOW!!!
      So a little education for you. The RCC teaches firmly that there is one mediator, Jesus Christ. To teach otherwise is a heresy. We are asking the saints in heaven (see Revelation) to join their prayers with ours. That is no more than if you were in the hospital and your minister came to visit, asking him or her to pray for you. So calm down and get someone to explain things to you before you go off on some tangent. Same to Kevin

    10. David says:

      I believe you’re all missing the point. It’s not about “giving God the glory He deserves.” Makes Him sound pretty egotistical don’t you think? It’s about removing anything that keeps you from being close to Him. If you have to pray to Mary to get results, it’s because you don’t believe -your- prayers are effective. Jesus paid a high price so that YOU can pray to God, and live a glorious life HERE, instead of begging someone else to intercede for you. That’s the Good News – the Kingdom of God is near YOU. YOU are the righteousness of God, in Christ.

    11. John Knoefler says:

      Oh the catholics are soooo funny. “780-year-old religious relic of the patron saint of lost causes and missing objects was stolen from a Catholic church “So the patron saint can save itself right?
      “We also do not worship Mary or Saints, we ask for their intercessions” Apparently catholics don’e even bother to read the bible. They pray to dead men and idols. Then they ask for intercession when the bible says the Messiah is the only intercessor. What a bunch of bollocks. No wonder catholics are thought of as the dum dums of the world.

  8. pt says:

    Bill and Cliff don’t understand the Catholic faith.

  9. Ryan Knowles says:

    The relic had no financial value?? I highly doubt that.

    1. Bill says:

      Catholics are forbidden from buying or selling relics, unlikely that anyone else would want them so therefore there is no market for them and no street value.

  10. dennis says:

    the bottom feeders that stole the relic will be so dumb as to try and sell it on the show pawn stars.

  11. Michael Horn says:

    Should this thing be returned, it won’t be through the efforts of the imaginary “God” people pray to. Based on the track record of the deity, I wouldn’t hold my breath. After all, countless billions of people throughout the past thousands of years have been sending their prayers skywards…with demonstrably abysmal results.

    And has anyone ever bothered to figure out just WHY they pray in the first place (let alone pray REPEATEDLY)? I mean isn’t this guy-in-the-sky supposed to be omniscient, all-knowing, etc.? Why do bumbling human beings have to remind him what to do?

    Perhaps the greatest shock isn’t realizing that something’s been stolen from a church but that one has been trying to get an imaginary being to do things for them that they should be taking responsibility to do for themselves.

    1. joe says:

      Okay, good for you. Do you feel better about yourself now?

    2. Calgal says:

      Michael, no one is asking you to believe anything, so why do you have to make such insulting remarks? Stealing is wrong, whether from a church or from someplace else. It seems to me your only reason for commenting is to bash people who believe in God. I’m not knocking you for not believing. That’s your choice. So why do you feel you have to make nasty comments? If others want to believe in God, what’s it to you?

      1. NorCalHillbilly says:

        Atheism takes a lot of faith…more than most other religions…
        I will respectfully tolerate your beliefs sir.

      2. NorCalHillbilly says:

        BTW – That was for the O.P., Mr Horn

    3. Ron Paldino says:

      God helps those that help themselves.

    4. Brad says:

      It’s not that Atheists don’t believe in God. They just don’t believe it’s someone ELSE.

  12. idiotmitten says:

    Maybe it’ll show up on American Idol.

  13. Ben Dover says:

    OMG! Who do we pray to now?

  14. Michael says:

    Trying with all your might to evangelize the faithful is a lost cause.

    We as Christians, spend so much time focussing on our diffferences we have broken our Christian unity. Instead of finding the things that join us together in Christ, we attack eachother’s slightly different understanding of faith, and allow satan to divide us all.

    Catholic Chruches, Angelican Churches, Baptist Churches and Protestant Churches share dialogue with many Christian faiths through socials, conferences and Bible studies. I invite each of those here to attack one anothers Christian faith to attend or seek out an open dialogue. How can we heal the world if we are squabbling tirelessly with those who share the same goal?

  15. John says:

    Do you have any pictures of deceased relatives? Have you ever held the picture and said aloud, “She was such a great lady!”. THAT is what a relic, or even an icon or a statue of a saint, is meant to function as in the Catholic Church. We do NOT “worship” images any more than you worship awards you may put on the mantle over your fireplace. They are meant as reminders only!

    1. Calgal says:

      Good way to describe it John. Too many people have the misconception that we worship the saints and don’t understand that the statues merely serve as reminders for us. They don’t get that we worship only God.

    2. Jon says:

      I dont pray to my deceased relaives or my awards!

    3. Freedom says:

      Redefine worship any way you want.

      1wor·ship noun \ˈwər-shəp also ˈwȯr-\
      chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors)
      : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence
      : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual

      So, revering, using idols in rituals or praying to an idol IS worshiping it.
      Good GOD, please of you are going to claim to be Christians READ AND UNDERSTAND YOUR OWN BOOK!!!!

    4. Topheh says:

      But the saints are not divine, so by definition we are *not* worshiping them as worship must be done to something divine…

    5. John Knoefler says:

      Unlike you I don’t pray to my dead relatives or talk to them. They are dead and gone as it says in scripture. And you do pray to images or idols and that is worship. You are idol worshipers. Your first love should be to your Creator but then catholics start of with small lies and work themselves up to burning people at the stake and strangling Jews. Thanks but no thanks. Had enough of your phoney religion over the centuries.

  16. Pocho Basura says:

    maybe the church should reach out to the patrons saint of theives, Jesus Malverde.
    OH WAIT, he’s the patron saint of narcotics trafficers.
    My bad

  17. Wow says:

    The ignorance in this thread is astounding. Atheism and liberalism require more faith then Christianity ever required.

  18. Rev. Ike says:

    The hillbilly belief that “saints are worshipped” by Catholics is one of the peculiar, self-imposed handicaps held by the immature practitioners of pseudo-Christianity.

    1. Tim Browne says:

      This isn’t some wacky new belief amongst Protestants.

      Both Martin Luther and John Calvin taught against the “veneration” of saints because it’s a pretty short distance from “veneration” to “worship”.

      While we remember the departed faithful and their gifts to the church and man, Protestants believe that there is no need for a mediator beyond Jesus Christ.

      1. Midwest Mike says:

        To Tim Browne–Martin Luther had a very strong veneration for the Blessed Virgin. Please read some of his quotes on the subject.

    2. Topheh says:

      And yet Luther had a very strong devotion to Our Lady…

      “The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.

      [She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough.” (Sermon, September 1, 1522).

      So… yeah. CLEARLY Luther was against Veneration, which is why he talked about it *all* the time.

      1. Dee says:

        Luther also felt that Esther should be left out of the Bible. He clearly didn’t read the NT that says All scripture is profitable to us. Nobody’s perfect. Esther is an incredible story about how God preserved His people from total destruction. It makes sense when you realize that God has done this throughout history to fulfill His promise to them as His chosen people. I guess Luther was too distracted by the beauty pageant part of the story. lol

  19. CaptainAmerica says:

    I’m personally not into bowing down to statues, or anyone or thing in general, and praying to the dead, but to each his own. Many of these people, women in particular, are also very superstitious and believe in
    ghosts, drink excessivelly and see/hear/imagine most ghosts then, inbetween yelling at their kids while the whole neighborhood cringes. I digress. Hope they catch thief, most likely a regular practitioner.

    1. Bill says:

      If someone is that interested in a relic for it’s religious value, it’s doubtful that they are a thief. It was more likely someone who THOUGHT it had some monetary value, a regular practitioner would know it had none.

  20. Bob the Prophet says:

    Faith comes from the heart not by viewing antiques. Peace be with you all even those who do not believe in me; The Prophet Bob.

    Just messing with you. THERE WILL BE NO PEACE! ARRRG..

  21. The real Doc says:

    These anti-Catholic postings are a good reason for Catholics to re-examine their political incilnations (those that vote Democrat) and think seriously about abandoning candidates that espouse the liberal-socialist-marxist agenda.

  22. Mad Max says:

    Funny how the pagans and atheists become professional commentators on ‘religious’ subjects all of a sudden.

    Please leave those who “know” God in as much peace as you’d like them to leave you in peace… or doesn’t it work out that way in the pagan life style?

  23. TSOl says:

    Right. That’s why there are so many prayers to Saints, and Mary.

  24. Jay says:


    Do yourself a favor and shut up. The book you mention is available on Amazon and sucks! Apparently, so does your knowledge of the constitution. Just don’t help us please.

  25. Heh says:

    Given that this saint is the patron saint of missing objects, I would suggest that a miracle has occurred here – the relic has gone missing!

  26. mamaconchita says:

    Honestly I thought the dumbest people on the planet are Americans, but this takes the cake–saint of lost causes and missing objects. How stupid can anyone possibly be. FYI what the church Catholic and other churches do not want you to know is religion is about the SUN passing through each house in the zodiac not any SON. IE When SUN rises in Virgo the Virgin, it experiences a virginal birth. When the sun rises in Aquarius, the water bearer, the baptiser, (January) from which “Jahn” is derived and pronounced John, hence John the baptiser. When the sun is directly above, known as high noon, it is “at its most high”…… go do your homework you do dos!

    1. lukuj says:

      TYou are so ignorant it is hopeless. At least TRY to be informed before you trash someone else’s beliefs next time.

    2. Brad Sperry says:

      I was in a Catholic Church gazing at the area for venerating this “saint” and happened to look down to see the heater floor vent happened to be right underneath the wall picture honoring him.

      I had to chuckle as there were many items in the bottom of this floor vent and though it was very appropriate spot for it.

    3. JD says:

      @mamaconchita Talk about doing homework, you hypocrite. January is a latin derivative of the name Janus. Who is one of the Greco-Roman gods. John is a hebrew name meaning “God Is Gracious, Merciful”. The two are unrelated. The word Baptize comes from an archaic Greek word, commonly used at the time John the Baptist was alive, meaning to submerge in water and has nothing to do with sunlight or bathing in it.

  27. Caligula says:

    You are all missing the point here…an illegal mexican stole from the church. Gotta love LA.

  28. TSOL says:

    John 14:6

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Now, where does he mention Saints? Quit pretending your distortion of Christianity is anything other than pagan polytheism in fancy dress.

    1. orthodoxtruth says:

      God is One. Not Three. Quit pretending your distortion of Judaism is anything other than pagan polytheism in fancy dress.

  29. Gary Nelson Harper says:

    Iconic and Ironic that the fetish of Lost causes and items is now “lost”.

    Yes there is a God…just walk outside and look up tonight…and redefine your concept of God…because the creator is not some guy in a chair with a wand fluttering magic dust upon you…

    Jesus never built a church, yet was a carpenter…He walked on water…I can hear his friends….”Jesus Dewwwd…. it’s pumpin’ left outside”. Jesus: My Brother, this is a fine day to catch the waves God has created, Have you any wax?”

  30. Tom Walter says:

    Obama Voters Will Steal Anything.

  31. Norris says:

    Here’s an idea…POST A PHOTO OF THE RELIC!

    1. Prophet Motive says:

      Tsk, tsk, tks, Noris. Posting a useful, practical idea; what is your problem boy? Can’t you see this forum has been appropriated for Catholic vs Protestant catfights and/or xtian vs atheist foodfights?

      Try to get with the program, willya….

    2. dee says:

      I really wanted to see it, too!

  32. jm says:

    …ha ha ha…you are always telling us that your imaginary friend in the sky works in mysterious ways…so don’t worry, your imaginary friend probably just had it “stolen” to create a little sympathy and free press for that tax-free entertainment complex, i mean church, that you’re running…

    1. icecream says:

      The voice of athiestic igmorance has spoken.

  33. God says:

    Hey! Stop fighting!!

  34. faith says:

    Such anger from non-catholics.
    Why does my beliefs in Mary and the saints anger soooo many people.
    It is our faith and not yours so unless you understand it you have no right to condemn it. Worry about your own faith or possibly the lack of faith and maybe, just maybe, things will get better. It always puts a smile on my face that so many non-believers get so agitated over these things. Worry about the log on your own eye…

    1. Dee says:

      I’m not angry at all. I wonder why Catholics accept praying to Mary when it’s not in the Bible at all. I fear for Catholics who think they are right and yet seem to be committing blasphemy with one of their core traditions.

      1. Tampa says:

        What an idiot. The Roman Catholic Church PREDATES the New Testament, and is responsible for creating it in the first place. Catholics don’t practice biblical Christianity because they practice the original Christianity that later produced the bible. Do you want the original oral tradition, or the later, garbled written one?

        The article is about some twit stealing an ancient relic, and all of bible thumping fools posting here are ecstatic because you think Catholics shouldn’t be worshiping statues. Well, they don’t worship statues. They also don’t believe in a God who is so miserable and insecure that he freaks out at the mere idea of a statue of a saint or angel. How primitive and superstitious can you get?

        The bible, written and assembled by the Roman Catholic Church that you disparage, was never intended for uneducated laypersons, such as yourself. It was created for priests already versed in the Church’s oral traditions, and who, therefore, had some understanding of what it was saying. For you to take passages and stupidly use them as weapons against the very Church that produced and, by rights, owns them, indicates how utterly ignorant you are about the religion, Christianity, you claim to practice.

      2. Jeff in GA says:

        Wow, Tampa… so the Jewish historical Jewish practice of requiring literacy in the scriptures for all men (which Jesus himself did, reading in Temple when he came of age, even though he wasn’t a Levite) was in error? The Pauline epistles (accepted as canon by all orthodox Christians) were only written to the priests of the local cities, although Paul specifically addressed teaching, admonishments, messages of correction and love to dozens of specific men and women?

        The word of God was given to all men (the species), not to the priests alone. You’re repeating one of the historical arguments of the Counter Reformation power grab of the RCC. Of course, I’ll heartily agree with you on your call for continual study and for proper hermaneutical arguments and and good exegesis, but to supress the word of God is… medieval!


  35. John says:

    God has foresaken us. Need we more evidence? Our so-called leaders over the past 50 years, and especially the last 12 or so, are leading us into disaster.

  36. Cass says:

    Let me guess- “The two thieves were illegal aliens who sold it for drug money”……

  37. FYI says:

    to those who claim to know about Icons / Relics being idolatry, kindly refer to the Second Council of Nicaea at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Council_of_Nicaea, where this topic was debated and decided upon almost 1300 years ago by the various Bishops of ALL the churches (before the various schisms) and people MUCH more educated and steeped in Church belief and doctrine than

    1. Brad Sperry says:

      That’s all neat and everything but the Word of God says different…and these are only a few of the many passages pertaining to honoring and praying to the dead.

      Leviticus 19:31
      “Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the LORD your God.

      Leviticus 20:6
      “If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.

      Deuteronomy 18:11
      or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,

      2 Kings 23:24
      Moreover, Josiah put away the mediums and the necromancers and the household gods and the idols and all the abominations that were seen in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, that he might establish the words of the law that were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.

      1. Christopher Andrews says:

        Obviously, you have no idea where you got the table of contents to your Bible – moreover you have no idea what a medium, necromancer, or charmer is if you think they have anything to praying to the saints (who aren’t dead by the way – or your faith is in vain).

      2. Topheh says:

        And if we were trying to raise the dead or get them to speak to us with witchcraft, those verses would certainly apply.

      3. Dee says:

        Christopher, I don’t see how you can justify praying to the saints. People didn’t pray to Paul when he was alive. He would have been horrified. Our God is a jealous God. Brad is 100% correct. Although his verses come out of the OT, I challenge you to find anything justifying praying to people (other than God) in the NT. Don’t blindly follow any tradition – it very well might be leading you into sin.

  38. Think before writing. says:

    Cliff your ignorance is showing.

  39. bill says:

    Why would anyone in the 21st Century worship anything?

    1. FYI says:

      1) because it is their right, under the US Constitution as well as United Nations charters and conventions of Human Rights? and also because it is none of your business to tell them what to do or not do?
      2) because everyone does, even if they don’t admit it…it could be money, spouse, job, kids, pop-star, politicians, a philosophy, etc etc…deep down, everyone holds something sacred and tantamount to worship, whether they consciously admit it or not…including you.

      1. bill says:

        No wonder or society is going backwards holding on to 2,000 yr old superstitions,I didn’t say it wasn’t their right,It is my business to see that our society survives it won’t if this mindless behavior continues
        I don’t worship anyone or anything

      2. Topheh says:

        Bill, if religion were a new phenomenon, you might have a platform to stand on, but you can’t say, ‘things are changing, lets blame the thing thats not changing for that change!’

    2. Dee says:

      Funny Bill, I often wonder how society will survive when they are completely hopeless and believe in nothing.

  40. Count Yob says:

    Maybe she was eyeing the gold and silver handles rather than the relic.

  41. orpilorp says:

    Since God is omniscient He knows when you pray to a saint and He knows the sincerity of your heart, so I don’t see why one would go though a lower ranked person when he already have full access to the general. Just pray to God! But to the point, why pray to someone who cannot hear you? Dear Catholics, where is the verse which proves that any saint is omniscient and can hear multiple simultaneous prayers from all over the planet AND is omnipotent to be able to act upon them? In other words, show me the verse which proves the saints have divine attributes.

    1. Searcher says:

      Because your post is a reasonable and well-expressed question, I will try to answer part of it. The saints are not “omnipotent to be able to act upon them”. When we pray to a saint we are asking the saint to ask God, in our behalf, for some request. The thinking is that God may be more inclined to answer the request if it comes from a saint, who already has a special place in heaven and in God’s heart. You have a good point about how can saints be omniscient and hear multiple simultaneous prayers. I really can’t answer that, That would mean that everyone in heaven can hear our prayers if we were to direct them to specific individuals. But I don’t know of any scriptural evidence for that. Anyone?

      1. Dee says:

        There is no scripture to support this. I’ve struggled for years wondering if my Catholic friends were non-Biblical in this area because I love my friends. But, I would not encourage anyone to do the things that Catholics are asked to do. What Brad says below is exactly it:
        When the curtain was torn in two it opened up the holy part of the temple so that we could be under a new covenant – the NT. Only the priest could go in there before. It is discouraging to see what the CC does to people, making them celibate priests and nuns. Even the priests of the OT were married!

    2. Brad Sperry says:

      They don’t need any scriptural proof – the Catechism of the RCC deems what it will and there is no questioning it…

      Going to a saint or Mary in prayer or asking forgiveness from a priest is Satan’s way of stopping the praise and interaction of God and Man through Jesus Christ. The curtain in the temple was torn at Christ’s crucifixion (Matthew 27:51
      And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. ) to represent that we had direct access to the Father through His Son Jesus Christ.

      1 Timothy 2:5
      For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

      1. r.s.j. says:

        Matthew 16, 16-17

        “Thou art Peter, and on this Rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

        Your sectarian interpretation is from a church outside of the rock, therefore is fallible, and judging by the disaster of protestantism….the gates of hell have prevailed on the church that taght you this erroneous idea.

  42. CaptainAmerica says:

    Venerate and worship are synonyms. Check thesaurus when the ghosts stop bothering you.

    1. Bill says:

      A thesaurus gives words with similar definitions, not identical.

  43. John C says:

    It’s not Christian to tempt people. Why wasn’t this relic under 24 hour guard to prevent people from even being tempted to sin by stealing? Stupid is as stupid does.

    1. lukuj says:

      Following your reasoning, every car should have a guard, every house, every computer, any thing that is of value because they are all tempations to someone somewhere. I hope you meant to be funny or sarcastic, because if you didn’t , you sound very foolish.

  44. Jova says:

    So elihu, what does your made up religion of the week say about detraction and calumny? not very christ like. sorry you were a bad catholic. get your act together and you could be one again someday. by the way, the Catholics assembled the bible, so I trust their interpretation more than yours.

  45. Jed hawkins says:

    A relic of the patron saint of missing items goes missing– miracle?

  46. TWC says:

    I would rather worship an old shoe than take to heart some dumb hick’s interpretation of the Bible.

    1. john knoefler says:

      Well there you go again, “I would rather worship an old shoe” and sure why not. You already pray to dead people and call blessed stupid images that do nothing for you or themselves. And calling people dumb hicks because they see the plain truth…. Even the dictionary shows you to be misguided.

  47. Catholic and Proud says:

    Someone attending a Protestant service the other day noticed a woman praying to the Bible!” What would you say about that characterization? Would you say the Catholic misconstrued what was going on, that the woman was not praying to the Bible which she held in her hands with her eyes closed and the Bible pressed to her heart as she prayed, but to the God who inspired the Bible?

    No one would jump to the unwarranted conclusion that this woman is treating her Bible as an idol. So why would you jump to the unwarranted conclusion that people jump to when they see Catholics with statues, say of Mary, and think that the statue of Mary is viewed as an idol? The same goes for having a picture of a deceased relative on the mantelpiece of her home. Would any reasonable person accuse her of ancestor worship? Of course not, so encourage her to use the same logic when she watches Catholics pray.

    Please understand why we do what we do – our religion does contain the whole truth, and the whole Bible. Catholicism is inspired by scripture and tradition. There is verses in the Bible that point out the significance of the Trinity (i.e. the baptism of Christ) and we do not worship idols.

    1. bill says:

      Proud? Proud of the actions of Pope Innocent the VIII? Child molesting priests? Really?

      1. r.s.j. says:

        You are telling me that you are proud of every act of every protestant? Is protestantism false or true because of the personal mistake of a single person? Protestantism is a joke becuase it is completely illogical, Protestantism has only one rule: there are no rules, YOU ARE GOD AND NOBODY CAN TELL YOU WHAT THE BIBLE MEANS.

    2. St. Joseph says:

      If that woman was worshiping the Bible as you seem to be claiming, she was wrong. They’re are a lot of people that do that. How does that change what the Catholics do? Both are wrong. Catholics (and everyone else) are told to not even create images and statues, let alone venerate or worship them, or anything associated with them. A statue diminishes God. It cannot represent Him, or anything else associated with Him, so how can it serve as a reminder? This is why He prohibits their creation. You cannot represent God, or anything like Him in a statue. If your Catholicism is, as you state “inspired by Scripture” then why do you create statues when the Scripture tells you to not create them? Why do you work against the Scripture, if it serves as your inspiration? I think the truth is that your statement is disingenuous, and you’ve convinced yourself that your church is right. What you really mean is that you’re inspired by Scripture until it goes against what your church says – then to hell with it.

  48. jay mizzle says:

    Let me get this straight, the patron saint of missing objects is missing? Further more… the object is “780 years old” and “made of gold and silver” yet it has no financial value”? I feel like this article is a joke… are they serious? I think we’ve been had.

  49. Larry Badten says:

    Amazing how many Catholics are lying to us and themselves here. I’ve watched with my own eyes, Catholics on their knees before their idols and praying to them by name. This done right in front of many other Catholics and their priests. You can lie to yourself about this one, but not me. I’ve witnessed it.

    1. Dee says:

      When I think about how Shadrack, Meshack, and Abednego refused to bow down and worship an idol in the OT, I can’t help but think the CC is very wrong to encourage people to pray to ‘saints.’ I see now that they are just saying they are honoring the saint, but praying to them, really? That’s worship.

    2. r.s.j. says:

      Just because you’ve seen something does not mean that you know hoe to interpret what you are seeing.

      1. Larry Badten says:

        This is one of the most ignorant statements that I have ever heard. I damn-well do know how to interpret something so blatant. Thanks for trying though.

  50. jasperddbgghost says:

    Can we get a description including skin color?

    Like we really need to guess…

  51. discovega says:

    Thou shalt have no other gods before me
    Thou shalt have no engravin images
    Catch a clue people, lose all the engravin images, youwoul dbe doing what God asked of you…unless of course you don’t want to do what God asks.

  52. St. Joseph says:

    The Biblical directive is to not even make such things. It’s best that it’s gone. The faithful at St. Anthony’s can now direct their “veneration” to God alone – where it belongs.

    1. rory says:

      the bible is abook written, editted, and altered by hundreds of men over 1000s of years before being codified.

      Whatever it says is irrelevant. Get a life

  53. Topheh says:

    I always keep this in mind:

    “There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church….As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do.” ARCHBISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN

    1. St. Joseph says:

      Nice deflection. Yeah, we know – it’s all just a big misunderstanding. Child molesting, sorry – our bad. We just misunderstand. Bilking the faithful? Ooops, sorry, just misunderstood. Protecting the church so that not one cardinal or bishop that was involved comes to justice, wow – again, sorry – my misunderstanding. It’s all good….really.

      No – I understand. It’s you who misunderstand. I DO hate child molestation, and lying, and criminals. So don’t tell me that I misunderstand the RCC. I understand it all too well.

      1. Brad says:

        Hey, thanks for Casting the First Stone!

        Jesus surrounded himself with prostitutes, thieves, liars, traitors and cowards.

        And what a shame you weren’t around back then … you could have lectured Jesus about the deficient people He selected to run His church.

      2. St. Joseph says:

        Sorry Brad – that doesn’t cut it. Jesus also came to heal the sick. The first step is to get the sick to SEE they’re sick. All of that “casting the first stone” malarkey you rely on is just denial. I’m not looking to punish anyone, which was what the Pharisees were doing, and is what you refer to. I’m just calling like I see it. If you want to ignore the issues, that’s your business. All I’m saying is that the Catholic Church has a lot of bigger issues than worrying about a relic.

  54. St. Joseph says:

    It’s best it’s gone. Venerate God, not idols.

  55. rory says:

    The bible was the decided upon interpretation of a myriad of oral histories passed down through generations of ancients who knew nothing of science, pyschology, biology, etc. It has been editted, changed, modified, and otherwise altered before being codified in the 4th century. Many books were discarded, others were included….

    It’s a joke people consider it a source of ‘truth’.

    1. Brad says:

      Always amused at how desperate atheists are to impose their belief system on others.

  56. Harold Kint says:

    Don’t be so mean spirited, people. The person who took the relic was merely using the precious metals to feed and reunite their family.
    Timing of the relic’s display and the person’s need was divinely inspired, probably..

  57. Primetime Editorials says:

    this is so sad
    I hope they find the relic
    is this a hoax?

  58. Bob Dobbs says:

    It is all superstitious nonsense. There is no Yahweh, Zeus, Odin, or God in general.

  59. Kevin says:

    Hey Cliff, I got some news for you…Catholics don’t worship relics or idols either. Only God gets worshiped by Catholics. The Holy Mother and the saints get adoration but they are NOT worshipped.

    1. Dee says:

      So where in the Bible does it say to pray to Mary? Also, there is no need for priests because Jesus was the last priest. It’s a shame the CC is not following NT Christianity. Read the NT and you will see that even many non-catholic churches are steeped in non-Biblical tradition, too.

  60. thywillbedone says:

    oh you misinformed heathen…
    A relic and or a sacremental IS NOT and idol and is not WORSHIPPED

    They are used as reminders and or supports , as something tangible to help in the worship

    1. St. Joseph says:

      If you need a reminder or a support to worship a God you claim you know, you’ve got bigger problems than can be addressed here.

  61. Richard says:

    Right, Father…it has no financial value…except on eBay.

  62. UrsusRexx says:

    “…The woman was in her late 30s and was short, heavyset, with wavy, shoulder-length black hair…”;
    …Anyone know where Olde Jo Ratzinger is? …Hoisting a tankard or three, down at the local N.A.M.B.L.A., (‘Tiber River’), Franchise?
    …a 780 y/o ‘relic’?
    What could it be? a used condom(s)? teeth? fossilized urethra? blind eyeball? No financial interest?
    The Catholic church NEVER pays attention to things of NO FINANCIAL INTEREST, L.O.L.!
    Maybe it has sexual, (…or ‘other’) fetishistic interest…

    BTW: Couldn’t the enterprising thief(-eves) have taken a few pedophiles, and/or, (‘look-the-other-way’) bishops, cardinals, pope, instead? The church certainly has plenty to spare!
    Hell, (no pun intended, L.O.L.!), clerical supervisors DON’T even notice when the police drag the black & white nastiies away, (‘perp walk’) for the media!

    1. Greg says:

      Get into therapy. Quick.

  63. Mike S. says:

    I hope that the relic is found and that Elihu doesn’t go to Hell for trolling this thread.

  64. yeshua alone says:

    It funny because I wonder if the idol will find itself, being lost and all. why can’t we pray to YHVH instead of gods made of stone or wood. ??

  65. proudnot2bliberal says:

    OK for all you haters out there blabbing along about idol worship I have a couple questions for you (& ill type slow so you can follow)
    1) When you say the pledge of allegiance to the flag are you worshipping the flag?
    2) If you served in the military or in Gov office you had to take an oath to uphold & defend the constitution. Were you worshipping the constitution?
    3) On the saints & the blessed mother. Was Mary the mother of Jesus? Was Jesus a good son? Now wouldn’t a good son listen to his mother? That is what we are doing when we “pray to’ Mary or other saints we ask that they intervene on our behalf since the “have the inside track” or Jesus’ ear? Its like asking for a trusted confidant of a powerful person to listen to us while he may hear us they are closer to him.

    1. Dee says:

      If the NT is true to say that God favors no man above another (meaning woman, too), how can you think Mary has a bigger ‘in’ with God. It’s as if the CC missed the whole point about the New Covenant. Please read your NT and ask God to reveal to you the way He wants His church to be. Don’t depend on religions that are steeped in man-made tradition.

  66. Midwest Mike says:

    The author is obviously not Catholic. St. Jude Thaddeus is the patron saint of lost causes. This story brought out the religious nuts. If you are not Catholic, why do we care about your views on religious relics. The bible thumpers need to know the differences among the terms, worship, veneration, and idolatry.

  67. Barry Weavers says:

    Lets see, a relic associated with the patron saint of lost causes and missing objects. has gone missing, Ironic isn’t it. As a comedian once said “You Can’t make this stuff up! “

  68. Denis says:

    The wonderfully “Christian” fundamentalists use the occasion of a Catholic parish suffering the theft of one its precious possessions to push their anti-Catholic agenda. It kind of tells you where they are morally and spiritually. Folks, if the Catholics tell you that they don’t ‘worship’ but ‘venerate’ why do you continue to insist on callign them liars? Whatever your stand, you have to acknowledge that the earliest Christians celebrated the Eucharistic liturgy on the tombs of their martyrs, hence the tradition of worship in the presence of saints is one that goes back to earliest Christianity, which you fundamentalists supposedly respect.

    1. Brad says:

      I just worry for their souls .. I mean, seriously, what are they going to say when they face Jesus on Judgment Day .. “Hey Jesus, make sure you condemn all those evil catholics who venerated your mom. ” I mean, sheesh, I wouldn’t wanna be anywhere nearby when the response comes back.

      “For, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.”

      1. Dee says:

        Mary is blessed because she bore Jesus! We celebrate this every Christmas. I seriously worry about the souls of those who think it’s okay to pray to Mary. Anyone you pray to is a god. Not good. Please, please read more of your Bible and try not to mix man-made tradition up with it.

  69. tim says:

    The catholic Church is the Church Jesus founded. Jesus never wrote anything down , (he traced his finger in the sand at the stoning of the the woman). People who believe the bible is the only source of revaluation about God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit, are just wrong. The Bible and Secrete Tradition carry equal weight and can not contradict each other.
    The Bible was put together by the Fathers of the Catholic Church and it was the only bible until Luther changed (excluded some books). Every day there is a new sect of Christian’s . (one sect was just warning of the end of the world). People have been trying to kill Christ Church (Catholic) for over 2000 years and every time they think they have succeeded it comes back stronger, Because as Christ told Peter the nether world will not prevail against it. (even if its own members try to kill it–bad priest and bishops and even Popes). So all the non- Catholic Christians I pray for you to come home. It is the Church that Christ founded and has the fullness of the truth

  70. sickofthebs says:

    im sick of bible thumpers spouting off bible passage and verse and acting holier than thou!!! the bible is a guide, it is not “the word of god”. it was written by a bunch of arab men decades after christ had died with only gospels included that fit their agenda.
    “do unto others…” isnt that one of the ten commandments?!? would you like it if someone was always getting in your face calling you a sinner, just because of some basic differences in religious philosophy then bashing you and your religion?!? why dont you practice what you preach?

    1. dee says:

      ‘Do unto others’ is not one of the 10 commandments (chuckle). If you want to really know about the Bible, please study it before making sweeping statements about what you think about how it came into it’s present form. You can’t really accuse people of being holier than thou when you don’t what they are discussing.

  71. elihu says:

    I sure annoyed the RC’s with those few posts didn’t I?! Heh. Now go buy a ‘Brown Scapular of our Lady of Mount Carmel’, and wear it so you can be assured that your ‘holy mother’ will come and take you out of ‘purgatory’ on the first Saturday after you die. This is the RCC’s ‘Sabbatine Privilege.” I always kind of wondered why she would wait until Saturday to take you all out of the firey pit? I guess to teach you a lesson…too bad for you if you die on a Sunday; you’ll have to wait six more days! Whew! Rome really had to put there collective heads together to come up with that one. One of many, many, many…THINK PEOPLE!

    1. tim says:

      Elihu – why is there so much hate in your heart?

      1. Jeff in GA says:

        Because he was lied to in the name of Sacred Tradition, which comes from man, at the expense of Sacred Scripture, the word of God.

        He was hurt, and holds a grudge. i understand. I did too for years. However, at some point you have to let go and forgive as Christ commanded.

        SOME Catholics (mostly of a certain older generation) pray directly TO the dead, including Mary. Many, thanks to reformation within the RCC itself, have grown up to recognize that the (formerly held) doctrine of a “Co-Mediatrix” is not doctrinally sound. SOME Protestants can’t get loose from their understandable desire to attack doctinal error.

        Doctine divides for two reasons, one good one bad: it inflates the ego of the protestor, or it preserves the most important core beliefs of a faith from being corrupted by human, fallible, error. For my part, I will pray for the thief.

  72. steve meyer says:

    I hope this doesn’t have anything to do with “The Creation”

    लेखक डैन ब्राउन स्टीव meyer संत anthonys चर्च पिता mollinger

  73. Grateful Now says:

    I grew up Catholic and then studied the bible later in life. Unfortunately, there are many things that are unbiblical that are practiced in Catholicism including infant baptism. The bible is real clear….I’m grateful for being introduced to God through the Catholic school I attended but we never studied the bible.

    1. dee says:

      I’m so glad for you. I grew up protestant, but realized that even in many of the churches I was in, we practiced a lot of non-Biblical tradition. I keep reading the Bible and am so amazed at what I find! It’s good to know the truth, but discouraging to find that so many people think they know whats in the Bible from hearing a few sermons.

    2. r.s.j. says:

      “The Bible is real clear”……sure, if interpreting the bible were that clear, why are there 40k protestant denominations each claiming to correctly interpret the bible? There is’nt even a single verson of the bible. The bible is worth more than the paper that it is printed because the Catholic Church authoritavely determined the canon of scripture. Christ founed a church, the church compiled the bible. Christ did not found a printing house to print a single book The bible was NEVER intended to be the only authoritative of teaching. The deposit of faith is from scripture AND tradition

      1. Jeff in GA says:

        … and as your Tradition changes, so does the ground under your theological feet. Stick with the solid rock.

  74. Fubarus Surabuf says:

    As Jello Biafra once said, “If you love God, Burn a church”

  75. just sayin' says:

    I just spent an helf an hour reading these posts. Interesting how they are all man centered attempting to justify a man created denominational preference. No or little mention of God the Father, God the Holy Spirit (who, by the way , inspired the flesh of men to divinely wite the Word of God) and sparse mention of God the Son.

    Let me remind us that it’s not about us. It’s all about Jesus.

    “For the God who shone light into darkness, has shone in our hearts to give the
    the light of the knowlege of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ” 2 Cor 4:6

    What a great day that will be when He allows me to see Him face-to-face and see Him as He really is!

    1. Robert C says:

      (1) when people are engaging in debate, its really not helpful to veer off the topic. Most of what you’ve said is basically true, in my opinion as a Catholic. And? Does the fact that some Catholics are responding to the ignorant interpretations of the Church (seen on this message board) mean that those Catholics are missing this point? No, this just wasn’t the topic.

      (2) Catholicism is by definition not a denomination. You may not agree with Catholicism, but the Church has held itself out as the Catholic (Universal) Church since the time of the Apostles and Church Fathers. The motivation behind the Catholic Church’s decision (through the authority of the bishops) in affirming both the Nicene Creed and the canon of the Bible was to distinguish itself as the true Church apart from Gnostic heresies.

      Thus, to say the Catholic Church is just a denomination is like saying the federal government in Washington is just one possible legitimate government. No–it purports to be THE Church. I can think of no Protestant denominations which purport to be THE Church. Thus, they are denominations. (For example–Mormonism is not a denomination because the Mormon Church considers itself THE Church. I disagree with this. But Im still not entitled to call it a denomination)

      Catholics do not consider the Church to be “man created.” It is for this reason that “denomination” is inaccurate. We consider it Christ created. We consider history and theology to support this proposition. So any defense of the Church IS all about Jesus.

      (3) Where does the Bible talk about the Trinity–God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, as intrinsically one person? Where in the Bible, does it talk about the Bible, or which books belong in it?

      Respectfully “Just Sayin'”, I think “non-denominationalists” are often well-meaning. But it is historically and theologically inescapable that you are a Protestant (=in protest of the Catholic Church’s authority as the Christ created Church). That’s fine. We can disagree. But don’t take for granted where that Bible came from and how it is that this book was canonized and preserved (literally against heresies) for over a thousand years before “Reformers” decided that some books didn’t work for them.

      I have nothing but love for my (misguided) Protestant brethren. Having great faith and passion for the Bible is always good. But this is an important debate. Its not just pedantic nit picking. So, if you don’t like the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

  76. Armageddon Thru To You says:

    It’s the Catholic Church, who cares? It’s a pseudo-Christian cult that worships idols, dead humans, and worse. Watch David Hunt’s movie, “A Woman Rides the Beast” on youtube or just Google “Roman Catholic Church” and antiChrist

    1. r.s.j. says:

      …..This video coming from one of the 40k bable of protestant churches…..hmmmm. really convincing. This video is just as credible as any one made by another protestant that contradicts it.

  77. r. s. j. says:

    Hey Genius,
    Catholics don’t worship relics. If the revrence that Catholics seems like worship to you, it probably because you have a poor idea of what wosrhip is.

  78. Robert C says:

    What if I make the BIble my idol? I don’t recall “Sola Scriptura” in the Bible. “Sola” seems to exclude “Jesus Christ,” no?

  79. El Barto says:

    Long Beach is the center of parole offernders.

  80. rachel says:

    All of this fighting among Christians makes me sad. Why can’t we just agree to disagree about some issues and walk in unity on the important things?

  81. Brian H. says:

    Friends in Christ,

    Those 27 books of the New Testament that both Catholics and Protestants follow were chosen by the Catholic Church. To believe in “Scripture alone,” and yet denounce the Church who put that Scripture together, is something to consider.

    Also, as Christians we are instructed to “Love another,” so instead of spewing hateful speech toward each other, let’s instead pray for another, and discuss our differences cordially. When was Christ ever hateful? Never. He often denounced “the hypocrites” also. A person who calls him or herself a Christian and willfully behaves otherwise is being a hypocrite. We are all sinners, but arguing in favor of Christ with belittling and viscious speech is not at all what Christ wants of his followers.

    As Proverbs 15:1 says… A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

    God bless! 🙂

    1. Brian H. says:

      To be 100% clear so there is no misunderstanding, “chosen”and “put together” were carefully considered verbs, as those books were Divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit and written accordingly. The Catholic Church chose which books were indeed inspired by the Holy Spirit, and thus put together the canon of the New Testament. The vast majority of Protestants base their beliefs on those very books, while denouncing the Church who determined their validity. I mean this as cordially and humbly as possible in an effort to invoke thought on the matter, not to stir up anger. Thanks 🙂

  82. Monty Python says:

    All this has given me a great idea for a film.

    We are all individuals.

  83. megunwiba says:

    excuse me as I ask for an intersession

    Hail Mary, full of grace.
    Our Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women,
    and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
    Holy Mary, Mother of God,
    pray for us sinners,
    now and at the hour of our death.

    1. Jeff in GA says:

      Megun, I appreciate the sentiment.

      You might want to look over Luke 16: 19-34.
      A parable direct from Jesus on the futility of asking the dead for intercession. This is the ONLY biblical example of prayers to the dead, or prayers for intercession through the dead, and as Christ illustrates, it is futile.

      Having said that, and observing that the phrase “mother of God” is nowhere in the bible, I’d say that Mary is the prime example of a Godly woman, to be admired and remembered reverently, and to serve as a model for all of us in accepting His will, Would that I had a tenth of her guts and strength.

      46 And Mary said:
      “(BA)My soul [ag](BB)exalts the Lord,
      47 And (BC)my spirit has rejoiced in (BD)God my Savior.
      48 “For (BE)He has had regard for the humble state of His [ah]bondslave;
      For behold, from this time on all generations will count me (BF)blessed.
      49 “For the Mighty One has done great things for me;
      And holy is His name. – Luke 1, NASB (with Imprimatur, for my RCC bros).

      Love to all,

  84. FairfaxScythe says:

    The shrill comments against the Catholic faith makes me wonder about the source of anger from the comments’ authors. Are they simply threatened by the Catholic faith’s traditions and history, which they cannot control, much less understand? At the end of the day, we see once again that the great source of anger and hatred in the world comes from misunderstanding, ignorance and fear.

    The relic may or may not be found – that is beside the point. The Catholic faith will persist, because it offers its adherents a way both to deal constructively with this life on Earth, and to work towards a better life, in communion with the Almighty, afterwards.

    1. Jeff in GA says:

      Well said.

      Ignorance is no crime, but wilful ignorance is a shame, isn’t it.


  85. MikeyDe says:

    Why cant non-catholics just leave us alone. This is a free country, last time I checked. Well before Obama anyway. Its remarklable how tolerant people become when they need Catholics to fight thier wars for them. I’m married to a protestant and about once a week I have to explain that the medal around my neck isn’t idolatry. You folks need to get on with worshiping God in your own way. Remember the Roman Catholic Church has 1/3 of the people on earth in it.
    The number of Protestant denominations is countless, it seems you people can’t agree on anything except trying to tear us down. Now go away!

    1. Jeff in GA says:

      Hee hee, Mike, so one of you is convinced he/she is the “salt and the light” in the relationship, you’re just not sure which one?

      Buddy, this is indeed a free country, and this is a public forum, for better or worse protected to some extent by the 1st amendment. Don’t log on if its an issue. Best wishes to you and the wife – keep your medal and keep the dialogue open, friendly and loving. I married a Proddy myself, and it worked out just fine!


  86. Mark says:

    Don’t you ever wonder why this supposedly Christian church believes in these things? Sort of like voodoo or pagans, read On This Rock by Dave Leonard to learn some of the real secrets of Catholicism. I know it’ll shock you.

  87. Bill says:

    I’ll pray for its safe return but I have to wonder why it wasn’t put up at night and locked, just as the Tabernacle is. Any church I’ve ever been associated with would lock up the Tabernacle at night and also lock all church doors when the church wasn’t in use. Confessions would be heard in the church office or rectory if someone needed “after hours” assistance. I don’t blame the pastor or church staff for the loss but vigilance is always required when dealing with consecrated hosts or other precious items.

  88. steve meyer says:

    Hoe this doens’t have anything to do with “The Creation”
    लेखक डैन ब्राउन स्टीव meyer संत anthonys चर्च पिता mollinger

  89. I hope this doesn’t have anything to do with “The Creation” Project:

    लेखक डैन ब्राउन स्टीव meyer संत anthonys चर्च पिता mollinger

  90. Gregory Schwartz says:

    I am 60 years old, was raised Catholic, graduated from Catholic school in 1968. I left the Church for many years, just came back to Church about 3 years ago. I honor God (the Holy Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit). I pray to God every day. I pray to Mary, the Mother of Jesus and some of the saints to intercede for me. I do not think God is a jealous, nit-picking God. I am sure he is a loving, caring and understanding God of us all. I am sure he does not mind if I say a few prayers to His Mother and some of the Saints. Remember, repeatedly, in the gospels, Jesus said, “Your FAITH has saved you.” Too many people place human faults in God, God is not jealous or vain or petty. – gregg in Sarasota, FL

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